Blending Tech and Tradition with Marc Longberg

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of On Production. The podcast brought to you by Wrapbook. I'm your host, Cameron Woodward, and today I'm excited to introduce a very special guest, a veteran producer and Wrapbook's very own senior customer success manager, Marc LongBerg. With over two decades of experience in the industry. Mark has worked on everything from high profile commercials to innovative digital content. His credits include producing content for powerhouse brands like Apple, Verizon, and Toyota, and collaborations with directors Tony and Jake Scott at RSA films. Today we're going to dive into Mark's multifaceted career, his insights on production, his transition to Wrapbook, and maybe even his passion for the New York Yankees. Whether you're an industry insider or just getting started, this episode is packed with wisdom. You won't want to miss Mark, welcome to On Production.

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0:51  

Thank you, for having me, Cameron, I really appreciate it.

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0:56  

Mark, let's just jump in to how you got introduced to this world of production. Can you share with us your journey? What drove you into this field? And how did you get started?

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1:07  

Yeah, that's an awesome question. Thank you. You know, I moved to California, the day of the Northridge earthquake in 1994. So I was upstate New York, flying later in the afternoon, you know, just fresh like, literally graduated college and my uncle had a candy company in Van that was a really profitable one. And so I didn't really have any. I didn't major in film and television, and I did some Liberal Arts at the University of Buffalo. I didn't have an exact direction. Let's put it that way. I thought I knew what I wanted to do, and then criminology and then it kind of changed it. So when I literally moved after the earthquake, things were just different. And but I moved, moved in, got settled, I lost my place to live. So there was a little bit of a rocky start to get here. And I started to work for my no goal in their candy business. And it was awesome. I lived in Encino. I went to Van Nuys. And I did that for a couple of years till they sold the business. And then after they sold the business, I went to work for the new owners, and then he decided to sell it. And that's when I had to transition from going to Encino, to the city of Vernon. And if you've never had to make that trick, it's special. And, you know, as during that journey, I started to think, you know, traffic was now from 10 minutes, was now one and a half hours, two hours each, you know, each way. And I just struggled with some direction there. But I was doing a really well lucrative week in the Katy business. But it was at that exact moment that I had friends that were in the industry that I had met here. And they were production coordinators, production managers on commercials for union companies, and we're also heavily into music videos. That was we're talking 1998. So this was a big time for a band apart. And you know, quitting this company, I mean, this was the heyday of that music video error. So I said to my friend, " I'm really struggling here. He said, "Well, why don't you try to assist production?" So we talked about it. And so I went from making $85,000 a year, to my very first year as a production assistant, I think I made about $38,000. But I was literally the happiest I'd ever been. And so one of my first jobs was a Sears Commercial. And I had, they were shooting nights at the old Sears store in downtown LA. And it was just fascinating for me. And I made a couple mistakes and did a couple of things that you're not supposed to do on film sets because you just have to either grow up on him or be a part of it to know what you can and can't do. So I got busted sitting in the director's chair when he got up to get coffee and he came back and of course I didn't recognize him. So, you know, typical production assistants set stories. But thankfully, after a couple of those minor incidents, I moved into a band and I did music video after music video as a production coordinator and I worked for some pretty heavy hitters in terms of production managers, producers, and got to see some really epic, you know, you name it. Britney Spears, Aerosmith. We went on tour, we did everything like Red Hot Chili Peppers, you can name all these big massive directors that were really able to just because they had the money, their money was just flowing. That's when music videos had a lot of money and had just you know celebrities and cameos and anything that you could dream up they basically did. So I worked a lot on the music video side till I was able to kind of break away a little bit. And that's when I started to work over at RSA as a production coordinator for a production manager at the time by the name of Jonas Dochart. And the producer was Michelle Abbott. And those two names are pretty much staples in the commercial television industry. And we started to work for Jake Scott. And then we did some toady jobs. And then we did serene jobs. And then really, but we were Jake's team for a long time. And it was at that point, lots of travel jobs, lots of just great jobs, you know, Nike, just just awesome, you know, and I got to learn the craft of filmmaking I learned right off the bat that production doesn't say no, you might say, you might pause and say, Let me think about it, but and find out what it's gonna cost you. But no, at that time there was no answer. So I really just got to see the best of their craft doing this. And it just got so exciting.

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6:05  

That's fantastic. I mean, you've worked really with some iconic directors, can you share a memorable project or experience from your early years in production? You know,

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6:14  

when I got into production, I wanted to test the waters. So I, of course, had to start at the bottom. So I was a production assistant. And of course, I wanted to drive trucks. Then I wanted to work in the office. But I also wanted to try other roles. So I did a music video for Whitney Houston. Your love is my love with whitecliff. John, filmed at Universal Studios on the backlog. And I was a second second running talent. So I'm running Whitney, Bobby was there. Why cliff, the entourage. And I just remember being in Whitney's trailer. And I'm just in awe by this now it's Whitney. You know, it's Wyclef. I'm a hip hop guy. And from New York Wyclef, it makes perfect sense. And so I just got to see like, I'm literally calling my friends going. I mean, I literally just dropped off Whitney Houston, you know, and I was responsible for her. And it was just tremendous. It's a really unique experience when you work with actors, celebrities that you use, you know, you've seen you've heard you've grown up with, but then you have an opportunity to interact with them. On this different level, you know, it was it, that was one of the things that really sparked it for me as well,

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7:32  

that's awesome, I will save my time in production, I was always amazed at the types of people I would get to meet. I think that's one of those things for folks who have been in the business a long time, or just starting out, that really keeps it exciting. I mean, I met Queen Noor of Jordan, and I've met multiple entrepreneurs, and just interesting people, professional athletes. You know, being in the business of creating content really exposes us to some fascinating people in the culture, you know, Mark, you've overseen, you know, some major productions in your time, you know, you didn't move up from pa all the way into positions where you really had a lot of responsibility over the productions that you were working on. What are some key lessons that you've learned along the way? You know, what are signs or signals that a production is off? What are signs or signals that a production is going great? And how do you kind of manage in between those interesting sort of observations when a production is really underway? Well,

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8:31  

it's a really great question. And it's not a super easy answer. I mean, years of it, you'd have to go through each role. So when I moved to production manager, then you are responsible for a working budget, hiring of the crew, the deals, making sure that you stay on budget amongst making sure that the producer directors agency and client's needs are met. So there's a transition every time you go, but one of the things that, you know, again, 1998 Till when I joined Wrapbook last October, it's a long time. And if you're successful, if you're able to keep pushing through and you're successful, and you keep at it, you're going to God willing, you get to these levels where you're confident in your role. So for me, I learned early on from the greats that you staff yourself on a production side, what you don't, you know, you don't understand your production. That might mean I'm going to spend more money on my production staff than I might want to spend. But knowing that you need the support, right, because every time you create a commercial music video or short film, you're doing the same thing every time. You know, you have to execute it, you have to scout it, you have to walk through locations you have to cast you have to you know there's a there's just a set formula So it's very easy to tell during parts of the process where creative people aren't aligned, where maybe even your financials aren't aligned. But if you're really good at what you do, and you're able to forecast those things that are coming, and I think that's part of what makes these industry greats great is that they're able to just forecast and they know, through previous experience, this isn't going to work out well. You know, I don't have the support, I didn't spend the money in the right place. There's a lot of things that will kind of grab you there. But you know, and having a solid Payroll Solution, a way to manage your finances, how are you going to, you know, execute your job on the paperwork side, right? How are people getting paid? How are you doing your purchase orders, your petty cash, there's a million things that you have to think about. And some of those things get kind of pushed to the side, because you have to get into the job. But those things are really big financial parts of the job. And sometimes the job can go great, but you sink yourself. On a paperwork side,

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11:11  

there seems to be an almost limitless number of vectors on any production that can sink you or kind of break your way and help you like to have an unexpected win. I mean, I'm curious Mark, I mean, we'll we'll dig into the Wrapbook side and the administration side, but I'm curious like, just in terms of the nuts and bolts of production for you, maybe you'd have to go way back in your portfolio so that you don't have to name names, and get in trouble. But can you talk about a specific project where you faced unexpected challenges and how you overcame them? I'm curious, you mentioned, you know, in the process of moving up into different roles, you learn these different lessons from experience. And I'm curious if any kind of pop in your mind were these really kind of cornerstones in your own development professionally as a producer from different challenges and wins along the way?

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12:03  

Oh, that's a great question. I think I would probably want to do it, right? I don't want to pick current clients, I'll pick a de facto organization, primer, wait this way. If you're listening, you're that that company can't really, you know, they're not really around 2012? Can I get like, super granular yours, should I

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Unknown Speaker  12:28  

share the goods mark we everybody wants to know.

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12:32  

And I'll say this, and we'll have to look at how it comes out after it might not be appropriate. But in 2012, the head of the Weinstein Company came to my friend and I and said, Well, you create this project called Lexus short films for Toyota and the Weinstein Company. And the idea behind the program was with Lexus and the Weinstein Company, we're going to get to get together, and they were going to find five filmmakers from around the world. They put an amount of money into it. That money, obviously, was a live action director and all the way through post, we had to create the series, then we had to budget the series, and we had to find the director, get the scripts done, and then execute the jobs. So we had five films to shoot from directors all over the world. And we were in production, and Lexus, like a script that I didn't. I said, Let's not produce, but I wanted the second film's script. So they made a deal. They said, Well, if you give me this one, I'll give you that. So long story short, we spent more than half of the overall five films budget on the first two shots. And then we took a pause, and got seriously stern talking to Mike seriously Stern. Now I'm, like, as stern as it gets. And they said, you know, and they basically said, figure it out. And so we did, and we basically had three more films to shoot. Japanese film, a Japanese director, a film from a Hong Kong director. So we had Hong Kong, Japan and New Zealand still left to shoot. My goal as a producer was always to bring everything to Los Angeles and use all my resources you might say to us can also be on the union side, a very expensive endeavor. And so we spent half the budget, then we made some production service deals and we made some pretty decent moves. And so we went to Japan to shoot the Japanese film. We went to Hong Kong to shoot the chunk for that direct From Hong Kong, and then we went to New Zealand to shoot the New Zealand film. And then we were on budget. And the film's came out fantastic. And, of course, when you shoot overseas, you can shoot bloggers, you can shoot more dates, your money goes further. So it actually worked out great. But that wasn't exactly how it was supposed to go.

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15:20  

I mean, when you look back on that, as a producer, like, What lessons do you feel like you learned from that experience

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15:27  

as a commercial production as a commercial producer moving into short form? There's a very different element of how, what are the expectations in general. So I've learned a lot of stuff there. Thankfully, I was already flooded with movie magic. So I was able to budget these things. And in hindsight, I did a really good job, there were just some key elements that you can't overcome, because they're just things you just can't overcome. I've learned a lot of things, I feel that it was a humbling experience. It made me stronger, it made me realize that you can go from a commercial world to sit at a movie company. I don't think I said the movie company's name. So that's good. But to be able to, to be at a high level movie company and be able to go, No, I'm gonna write I'm going to use, I'm going to do it my way. I'd like to do it this way. You know, they're like, No, we don't want you to do it this way. I want you to. So we had this back and forth, right? Because they're like, you're short form, you're not long form. You know, there's this discrepancy among short form people too long for they don't always see each other, if you ever get a feature film, DP or a director on a commercial. They don't move as fast as a commercial director. And they're cruisers, but they're just different. You know, they take longer to lay, they take longer to do things. So I love coming from commercials transitioning into that narrative, because we move fast.

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17:05  

Is it fair to say that, like, you think of yourself, I guess, historically, through your career as a commercial, short form, producer, is that fair? I mean, you've worked across the gamut. But you seem to have an affinity for and kind of earned your stripes on the short form commercial side. Is that fair?

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17:25  

Yes. And no, I mean, my thick is my main bread and butter commercials. But I have, I'm long, I'm a post producer by trade. So I will typically take my jobs through post production, which is not something you normally do on commercials, I produce live events at a really large scale for Beachbody for a couple of years. So we're talking 20-30,000 people. I'm a multicam specialist, like live events, large scale, I basically was groomed to watch all these people in these different formats, be able to construct these jobs and execute them. And I was able to, as someone that fell in love with the craft was able to go, how do you do this on these other projects. And so I did live events, I did episodics, I've been on television shows, I did cooking shows, I did four years of health and wellness programs. I'm a really, fully well-rounded producer. So I can do anything, I can produce anything.

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18:30  

That's great. I mean, I think for many producers listening, they feel even if they haven't done some of these roles, they probably have confidence in themselves that they could figure it out, because there are commonalities across these things. I'm curious, Mark, you know, I'm curious. In the game of semantics, what are some common misconceptions about the role of a producer? Is that even the right name of describing what it is that you do on a production? How does reality differ?

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19:00  

Interesting question. I think, you know, there's a generic term producer. And then there's this term of the line producer. And then something that's changed over the last for me, this treat of producer you know, so if you're like a producer, I don't know dependence, like line producer just comes in and executes these lot, you know, executes the job as its bid, you know, moves money around, she figures out creative gets a duck line producer, then there's a producer that might oversee the job but not be strong enough to really manage the whole job. And then there's the creative producer that comes in and is really able to oversee and, and stay with the project. You know, all of these projects, everything that shot needs to go through post production. And I think that's where that creative producer comes in, someone that can take the conception idea through your physical production into post production and then out the other side. And that's one of the cool things was working in post production and being toilet in that, that was really beneficial for me. I knew what the back end looked like and was able to kind of go, oh, we can do that in post or No, I can't do that and post because it's going to be too expensive. I think you can just be a producer and feel comfortable in something and have the right team. And as long as you surround yourself with people that are experienced, and you know, the app your back, right, these thoughtful production partners, people that really, really love what they do, you can pretty much get through anything.

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20:47  

That's awesome. You know, Mark, you've worked in, like you said, commercials, television and music videos, live events, films. From your perspective, how does the production process vary across these different mediums? And what stays consistent?

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21:02  

It depends where you are, right? You could be in a commercial, like, it's all the same, right? You have to x, you get creative, you get a budget, you create a budget, it just really depends on where you get folded in? As the producer, you know, do you get folded in after the job's awarded? After the creative is done. You know, my commercials you get folded in, sometimes you get folded in, you're actually doing the job. Those are my favorite types of jobs. So now I'm interfacing with the client, I'm interfacing with the director, I'm bidding the job per what's being shown to me from the advertising agency and the client, and then able to then execute the job based on that. But sometimes you just you get a phone call the phone rings, and it's like, hey, you know, oh, tomorrow, you come in and you start this project, you know, we're a week, you get a couple days lead time to come in and start a project and then you got a crew up? And, you know, it just depends where you are on that producer food chain. And what kind of companies and how we're, how do they value you. There's some stringent commercial companies that bring you in at, you know, folgende, just before the job awards, same thing, and then projects just come up naturally, you know, so you might be sitting around unemployed on a Thursday and Monday you you're working on, you're out of town, you know, you're traveling somewhere, but logistically filming is filming. Right? It's what are the key elements, locations, cast, crew, and then the financial aspect of it. So is it really all the same?

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22:45  

That makes sense. I mean, you touched on this both in your story about, you know, going all over the world and making these films for the car company. But you know, budgeting is often a tightrope walk in production. How have you managed to align creative aspirations with budget constraints? And, you know, you described the challenge in those films that you were working on globally? I'm curious how you've worked through those, and how do you manage through this process of resource alignment across all of these different mediums?

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23:21  

That's, you know, it's a really good question. Every job is different. It's not easy. Realignment sometimes can be very difficult. Depends on again, if you're on a commercial, if your director, and creatives can get on the same page, the client is on the same page, you can have jobs where people just are aligned. Beauty, sometimes they're not aligned, maybe everyone's aligned creatively, but they're not aligned financially. So there's a lot of tough conversations that a producer or production company has to have to be successful. But you almost have to have those conversations. And a strong production, managing backroom, I think is helpful to a producer. Because if you've now spoken to the greatest, that you know, the most expensive DPS that most got these award winning people for a long time, you're able to have these tough conversations, and you're able to figure things out, you know, you're you're gonna get these jobs where production sees it, the production company sees it, I'm going to shoot this on stage, it's a car job. And then your bid for key plus five on either side for gripping electricity. And then you might have this director of photography that, you know, the way he rolls because he's he's an Academy Award winner, and there's a couple out there that I'm sure this audience might recognize, and they're going to come in at key 10 You know, they want 10 people and they there's a certain people that just Roll that way. And then you have to have these tough conversations, you know, I know I'm sorry, I don't have a 75,000 Euro ad budget, you know, hey, you know, and then that's where you have to sometimes you'd have to involve other partners, you know, the head of production, then the Head of Production might have to go to the executive producer. And, you know, there's, there's escalation points there. And sometimes the client, they got to go back to the agency, and, and then there's the client. So it really all depends.

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25:30  

It's super interesting. I think that there's a lot of creativity that goes on, on the budgeting and the resource allegation in production, that unless you've ever been in it, you don't realize how tricky and creative and interesting that process is really kind of, you know, trading resources for different outcomes. You know, I want to transition a little bit, Mark, you know, can you describe I mean, so you, you're a leader here at Wrapbook, within our customer success organization. I'm curious if you could describe what that is and what you do at Wrapbook, but more important, or as important, there is, I'm really curious how your experiences in production informed your approach to customer success or Wrapbook? And are there specific lessons or skills that have translated from production in your new role that are really helpful?

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26:27  

So I think it's three questions in one. Let's see if I get it. So I'm a senior customer success manager at Wrapbook. When I initially started here, I didn't really understand customer success. But ultimately the customer success manager is the person that holds the account. We do all of the product training, we are the day-to -day contact, we sell, we train their people, we follow their payroll, we're basically experts in the product experts in the payroll field. And so for me, what's been really nice coming from production is I'm able to, right off the bat, I understand knowledge of the customer, I'm able to very quickly identify who this customer is. What is their workflow? How do we work with them to unlock features that maybe they haven't been using? You know, identifying how they operate? And then how can we best alleviate time spent running payroll? Using purchase orders? Like, what software features have we unlocked as a company that could make it easier for them in their process?

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27:48  

Yeah, you know, I mean, just for the record, Mark, just that, you know, on, on On Production, we really don't even talk about Wrapbook very often. But you are in this really interesting position of having such a rich background in the mechanics of production. And you happen to work at Wrapbook in this really special role. So I made some space for us to kind of talk about it, because I think it is a really interesting intersection of skills. And I'm curious, can you share an example of how Wrapbook has impacted the production process for its users? Like, you were just saying that, like you, you work with accounts, you walk them through the specific features, the solutions, the payroll of making production happen effectively? Or are there specific features or solutions that you find most exciting from a producer's perspective?

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28:39  

I'll give you an example. And I don't know if you can use this, but I'll tell you what, so when I came to work here, you didn't capture shoot dates in the product. You asked for a start. and Iraqi, at that point, I had said to Kevin, Kevin, how come you don't ask for shooted. Kevin said, I can't really tell you go ahead and put a ticket in for it and let's discuss it. And so that ticket went in and then V and you know, two of your product specialists basically got together and they determined that if we put sheet dates in the product, AI sold it very easily because we do we have a right word from a worker's comp perspective, we need to know when's the biggest liability? So again, you know, here's this: it's cool, but it really shows you like the breadth of Wrapbook. So basically those two departments got together and said, Wait, if we put sheet days in, I can unlock smart line coders. So now you put a job title and you're adding a person to a project. You say they're the key grip. You have this chart of accounts on the project level. You put a line you put in there you say hey, I'm the key grip. You put in the rate. And then next thing you know, you're prepping wrap line numbers already populated based on that chart of accounts and the job description. So like, when you look at things that a digital platform rains like for me, if I were to go back a little bit, you know, I process payroll for 15 years. And it was a very manual process you didn't you, you get your your on with whoever you're processing payroll with, you get a stack of union time cards, a stack of non union timecards, you did all the backup, and then you basically have to have an office to sit, make these timecard packets and highlight everything, because employees don't necessarily fill out where they're supposed to. So now you're stapling all this stuff, hours upon hours are spent making these packets, right. And you'll have to kind of make it foolproof for the employee. And so there's hours spent in the production office making time cards just to get them ready to distribute. So on the rapid side, that same office pa that sat there, making these packets, in my mind can also be a person to help onboard workers. Because it's digital, it's faster. And it's since. So for me, I know that Wrapbook is working. Obviously, we released this month the ability to delegate some of the worker information flow. So I know that we've addressed things like, how do we get people on board the quickest? And how do we do it effectively to suit our customers? So for me, it's awesome to be at a financial technology company that listens to their customers, that takes the feedback from their customer success managers, right, because we're the ones closest to the client, obviously, sales is very close to the client. So between these two departments, sales and success, and then you have support, you know, every department there's, you know, I think we need to think about it, all of our departments do give feedback back to the product. It's a pretty incredible place to be. And so you know, if I'm coming up on a year here at Wrapbook, just to see, like, I want to talk to my clients every month to go, Look what just came out. Let's address that this addresses what you were, you know, what some of your production struggles with. So for me, I'm heavy Company Settings. I'm heavy on project settings. I'm heavy, understanding our clients workflow, and I'm all about training and making sure people really understand how to be successful in our platform,

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32:48  

you know, if you ever went back to producing or if you got into a time machine. And this is obviously a loaded question listener, but I'm trying to be authentic in my asking it like the mark. I mean, I am curious, like, Should you go into a time machine? Or if you were to pick up producing again? Would you want to use Wrapbook? Like, would this be the solution that you found most exciting or useful from the perspective of being a producer for all of these years, and really understanding the ins and outs of what it takes to make something

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33:23  

that's a no brainer? Show Wrapbook? You know, I think the thing is, when you are used to paper time cards, and you're used to a process that just might be antiquated, but it works, you know, you stay with it. So when Wrapbook first came out, I worked on it, it was, again, the same notes that everyone will have, I'm not, it doesn't look the same way I'm used to, you know, calculations are great. You just have to try it, and use it and go, Okay, you have to really be trained to go, Okay, it's different from what I'm used to seeing. But once you understand it, it's a no brainer, right? Once you understand its capabilities, its limitations, once you're in it, and you can, like, you're not overwhelmed by it, right? Anytime you have something new that comes out that people are adopting, especially in the film industry, when, you know, you don't have a lot of time to learn new stuff, especially when you're on a job. So for me, I'm, it'd be a no brainer. You know, I'd come in, and I would be looking at things that maybe the production company doesn't know, and I'd be like, Hey, let me see your company settings. You know, let's look at your project settings. You know, again, it's understanding what our product can do. And then making sure that the people that are using it are able to, to, you know, get those key features out. And new release features, you know, you're releasing features monthly, and these product updates come faster than I've ever seen. So It's really, it's a really beautiful thing for me to be able to pass on to the clients on a monthly basis.

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35:06  

That's awesome. You know, Mark for someone who's seen the industry evolve? What trends or challenges do you think are most pertinent to today's producers? And if at all does Wrapbook address some of those challenges?

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35:20  

You know, time, time and money are probably the two, the two greatest challenges for production. So, for me, if you can save time, whether these are now these key financial tasks that you have to do payroll, purchase orders, petty cash. So I think what a Wrapbook is really, and then of course, budget tracking, right, and or MNL, were budget trackers going. So I don't want to say too much about what's potentially coming. But the way I see Wrapbook, and the future and the vision that you and I we have and the team, it's a no brainer, you, you basically you get invited to the project, you as a worker can see your personal projects, you can see all the projects that you are managing or been a part of. And so you come into Wrapbook, and you can literally not leave Wrapbook. You can, you know, I'm not gonna say what you can do on the building side, what's coming there, right. But I, for me, it's like this icy division. That's why I chose to interview for the position. And I wanted to come work here because I could see the vision. And it was a confirmed vision. It wasn't, oh, maybe we'll do that. No, we're doing that. And it's coming, you know, and I see the evolution into budgeting and accounting for film and television and how that's going to benefit our commercial clients and our short form clients. And you know, and it benefits, it's gonna benefit all of your non union clients that are smaller companies that don't have the support that these larger companies have. Not sure if that answered the question, but

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37:05  

yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much. So, you know, Wrapbook itself is a technology driven solution for the production industry. A slight pivot from Wrapbook, but how do you see technology continuing to shape the landscape of production? And what insights can you provide from both your past and current roles?

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37:24  

Technology is ever changing, and it moves quickly. So when I started, we were on felons. There was never no digital, there was no idea of digital. You know, I also remember a time where most people had antiquated computers, you know, where teamsters had a telephone, and that they had to sit by the studios to get work from, you know, things were very different in the late 90s. And it just keeps changing. And for me, it's, you know, as a person in the industry, I think the thing that's going to change next nowadays, AI and everything with computers, and what computing power we have, I think is probably from the next generation where do things go? You know, this? You know, I, I've had some discussions with people about can you create bids? And can you like, take a director's treatment and drop it into this program? And then, you know, chat and GBT out of budget, you know, in a solution. So I think for me, there's so much stuff coming. But at the end of the day, you still need these people with the experience, to kind of, you know, go back it up and be able to execute it.

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38:48  

That's fascinating. Yeah. I mean, you, you make a really great point, right? Like, the industry has evolved very quickly, from just film to digital, from lighting being hot to LED from, you know, post production and production workflows going digital. Like, in the moment, we oftentimes are just so caught up in our job. But if you take a moment to really step back and look at it, the pace of change is pretty incredible. And what these technologies have allowed us to do as storytellers and as producers. It's pretty unbelievable. Mark, thank you so much for your time. And thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I can't let you go without asking about your beloved New York Yankees. If you were to compare your approach to production with a famous Yankees moment or player, what would it be?

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39:40  

It's an easy one. Mike, my son's born on Halloween. And I'm a huge Reggie Jackson fan. So I'm going to just just go with the Mr. October, you know the ability to to come up when when you need the most and knock out three home runs and again I'm gonna give homage to

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40:02  

Reggie. I love it. Well, Mark thanks again. And it's such a privilege and it's such an awesome thing to be able to work with you every day on, on bringing Wrapbook into the world and really trying to make an impact. Having you on the team with your background in production is just unbelievable. And I know that all of our clients that you work with feel like they are in very good hands with somebody who's been in the trenches alongside them. So thanks so much for your time. And I'll see you at the next one.

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40:33  

All right, thank you so much.