The Art of Commercial Productions: Insights from Five to Sixty

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Hello and welcome to On Production presented by Wrapbook. Today I'm excited to have two dynamic executive producers with us. TJ Tamayo and Juan Sebastian Byron. TJ is an LA native with a passion for storytelling rooted in her Filipino heritage and a love for iconic films. She brings her creative vision to life in various media forms. And one Sebastian, a Colombian American producer and USC Film alum combines his love for digital technology with innovative storytelling, creating really awesome, impactful content across platforms. Together, they are the driving force at five to 60, known for cutting edge approach to all kinds of media production. TJ, Juan Sebastian, it's great to have you both here to share your insights and experience in our kind of ever evolving world of film and digital media. Thanks for being on.

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0:53  

Thank you so much. Thanks, Cameron.

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0:56  

So TJ, how did your upbringing and early love for film shape your career path and media production,

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1:02  

you know, I've always had a passion for storytelling, and film even as far back as I can remember, honestly, I grew up in LA. So I definitely was surrounded by it. But I found myself just kind of like, really investing in the stories and the characters. I remember, like, one of my favorite movies of all time, as a kid was like, The Mighty Ducks. And I used to imagine myself being one of the ducks and like, you know, I went to Russia with them, and, you know, played, and the USA team and I just remember be, you know, just kind of having it be a portal out of like, sort of my reality. And I think that it's still how I feel about film to this day, it's never kind of lost that mystery for me. Even though obviously, I see all the behind the scenes now. And also just, I feel like it's a great window to just, you know, for, for me, it really allowed me to bond with my dad too, because he really loved action movies. So we used to watch like John Dan, or like Sylvester Stallone, and like Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I feel like that's kind of the power of storytelling. And I just kind of knew always that I would be part of it in some way. I think I wanted to be an actress when I was younger, but I realized pretty quickly that I tell I really like being in the spotlight. And I prefer to be more behind the scenes. So I'm, you know, kind of right where I need to be in helping, you know, bring these stories to life. So that's kind of where my love for it goes.

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2:37  

That's fantastic. Sebastian, for you. What kind of drew you to focus on digital technology and storytelling, and how has that influenced your work at five to 60?

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2:47  

Yeah, it's really fun. I mean, I was in, I think I was in middle school. And my best friend came up to me one day, and he was like, I want to make a short film. There was a local film festival, they had like a student screening of projects. And it's like, yeah, I want to make a short film. I want you to help me, I want you to be my cinematographer. And you know, for me, it was like Google, like, what is the cinematographer? Like, how do you make movies, and I was not somebody who watched a lot of movies, you know, before that, but just kind of really diving into, like, how it all worked. Like, it just felt like a magic trick to me, like the idea that like, oh, they only use one camera, but it looks like it's a bunch of different cameras, like, oh, they do this trickery, this is how you do it. I just became obsessed, you know, I just wanted to learn everything there was to learn about, you know, how you made movies, how, you know, these projects came together, we went out there we shot stuff. And just learn from each project that we did. And at the time, you know, I fit into that role of like the cinematographer, because it really was like, you know, my friend's vision and his ideas, and I just loved coming along and trying to find solutions and figuring out how we could make them there was a little bit of producing too, because back then, you know, we're just doing everything. So I just got very used to that dynamic of being somebody's like, support and like partner in making things. As you know, I went to film school, it was that same dynamic, I fit into that role. I started taking a lot of the cinematography classes at the same time, making projects for us was like, going out there getting locations, negotiating gear, deals, et cetera. So the producing part and you know, especially when you start PA-ing, you're doing a lot of producing oriented work kind of going up through that side of the ladder. So it's always been a bit of like that hybrid world for me. And as we just as I started getting better at making stuff, like question was like, what's next? Like, I want to learn more. That's really where what took me to explore lore, new techniques and you know, digital stuff. And a lot of innovative storytelling was just wanting new challenges wanting new things to Google and try to figure out how they work. And it's just been a bit of like, an evolution of that, like, I feel like to this day, like I just love a project where you come in, and you're trying to figure out how to find solutions, how to solve these creative and practical problems. So it's been a lot of fun. I mean, I went through that process where I started to realize I kind of had to pick a lane, because I've loved being a cinematographer. I loved all of that process, but also just loved being involved at a just more involved and having more control over the project in terms of like, solving problems outside of just like the image. That's one of the things that kind of gravitated me to this current role that I have now. That's

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6:01  

fantastic. I'm definitely going to ask you a few questions about your experience as a cinematographer. But before I do I mean, TJ, you have this really rich background as well, in producing really complex productions. Can you share an experience from working on projects, like, you know, Super Bowl ads, and music videos that's been particularly impactful for you? Yeah,

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6:22  

I mean, I have been in production for a decade now. And I started as a PA, so I worked my way up through the ladder. And I think that has really helped me become a really strong producer, I'm an executive producer, because I really do understand like, everything from ordering lunches to, you know, to the complexities of like, organizing, you know, incredibly crazy schedules and things like that. A specific example a little bit earlier, in my career was, I actually worked on that Maroon Five music, video sugar. I don't know if you guys remember that. It's quite some time ago. But that was I just remember that being such an eye opener for me in the sense that, because it was such a different project, we were we had like real weddings, real people that we were surprising. And it was a five day shoot, we had like a lot of, you know, B roll type stuff. I mean, it was it was a massive job for this kind of music video. And I just remember having to deal with so many things that changed on the dime. I'm just trying to really be organized, and collaborate with so many different people and weddings and making sure we came at the time that they asked us because we didn't want to give ourselves away because we weren't surprising the guests. So I just remember that being particularly challenging, and almost like wanting to quit production. Um, after that, and then just after that, I remember just being like, if I can get through this, I can get through anything. And you know, it bled into like, just every production I grew. I remember I did Superbowl commercial. That was with DoorDash. And it was actually Sesame Street. And the director was Michel Gondry who I'm a huge fan of, and I was also massive job. But it was also just really fun for me, because I loved Sesame Street as a kid growing up too. So it kind of reminded me of like, why I was in this business and, and why I liked it. I think every job. It's just one of those jobs that you kind of just learned through experience, and you have no idea how well you can work under pressure until you're put in these kinds of situations and everything feels very life or death, which is kind of crazy, because it's it's not, but it feels that way. And I just learned to be so much more resilient, in that sense. So yeah, I think just every production just makes you stronger. Really,

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9:02  

it's so interesting in production, that the number of challenges that each individual is figuring out solutions for whether they are the ones capturing the images, or the ones producing the entire set. And with that, you know, Sebastian, like you had mentioned this a moment ago that you've really gone deep, and in some cases have contributed as a cinematographer. How did those experiences kind of influenced your role today as an EP?

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9:31  

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I realized a lot of my experience when I was working in cinematographer was working very closely with producers and working very closely with directors because I think, at the end of the day, we're all problem solvers. Whether it's a production problem or creative problem. It's really the same skill set. We're all sort of in our individual disciplines, but there's such a skill that we all share. or in coming up with solutions, knowing how to pitch the solutions, making sure you understand your role and your contribution. And it's a really, I think, what was interesting for me was realizing like, as a DP, I was working with directors and producers to make commercials. As an EP, I'm working with directors and producers to make commercials. So the skill set is so similar. And, you know, I think it's a rare thing, you don't really see a lot of EPs that step into this role. But having worked so closely with directors to just having an understanding of the challenges, there needs the work, like truly like the hard work and, and real commitment that it takes to make something really good. And at the same time, also, understanding from a producing standpoint, like, the challenge is how difficult sometimes it is to pull off very ambitious, creative, etc. It's, it's a lot of fun. And it felt like I was just a continuation of, of what I'd been doing forever. It was it's interesting kind of seeing that dynamic. But ultimately, we're all sort of try and make the best version of the vision of the creative of the project. And you'll find that from the grips to the Art Department people, everyone is very much a solving problems. And it is our like, ultimately, like the best skill set that we all have. And we all share. That's

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11:33  

fantastic. And so I'm curious how this applies for both of you, like, what is your day to day work as executive producers at five to 60 evolve? How do you approach new projects?

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11:44  

Well, we work primarily in commercials, you know, the main bulk of our work is in the commercial space. Yeah. And I think TJ and I both, like, have that traditional commercial background of having come up in that model and the production world there. So I think as EPs we are kind of, at the front lines of commercials, when they come in, we will generally, although we do a lot of our work with with Brand Partners, a lot of our work is from agencies that are going out and sending out requests for reels. And we work with a network of directors that we propose for projects, the reels come in. And at that point, once an agency invites us to pitch on a project, one of us is sort of assigned to the project or one about steps into to lead the project at that stage. Do you want to kind of go from there, TJ?

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12:47  

Yeah. And then, you know, we were very collaborative at five to 60. And so we kind of, you know, tag team a lot of things if, depending on like, kind of our bandwidth. But But yeah, after shortlisting, we usually start bidding the project. And you know, given how much experience we both have, like on set, and it's pretty easy to be able to do that, because we really do have a good understanding of how much things cost and what's needed. Like if you need extra permits for certain things, or like location, or police that maybe some people wouldn't think about. And obviously, you really just dive deep into the creative. And just make sure that you're kind of, I usually like write a list, I write a list of like, you know, how many talent is there, how many locations is there, and then just kind of go from there. And then we also just help the directors with their treatments as well. So once we, you know, kind of have a call with the agency, we have a creative call with them, usually. And then we talk through kind of what their needs are concerns, like, what they're really hoping to show the client in what their creative approach is, then we can, you know, start putting our treatment together to kind of show what our vision is, and then we work really closely with the director on that. And then, you know, we submit it and hope for the best. Yeah,

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14:11  

it's a competition. So generally, the agencies will bid three production companies and three directors and there's a process of, you know, each team putting together their vision, their proposal, and ultimately, they make a decision. So, you know, this is kind of where we were a little bit of our sales hat, a little bit of like a director, Coach, you know, helping them out and trying to guide them because we go through it a lot. You know, I think a director, you know, only pitches on a certain number of commercials a year we do it all the time. So I feel like we got to bring a little bit of our experience into it and yeah, it's fun and then once you know if we are lucky to win the job, because it doesn't always happen. But you know, if we get the job, we get to make it And our job as an EP is to hand this off to our producers, and then supervise it along the way, we also act as a lot like the directors reps, like we are a director representative, we're there to make sure that they're being heard, that their vision is is being, you know, consider that they're being taken care of. And ultimately, you know, if they have any concerns, we're the people that are really invested in making sure that they have a great experience. I mean, we're only as good as the directors that we get to pitch. And so it's just a, it's a really important part of the process for us to make sure that they are directors who want to come back time after time, work with us, as well as the agencies as well as our brand partners, etc.

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15:47  

That's really great insight. I mean, Sebastian, you just said something there key, which is about the experience that you will provide, can you maybe most of you walk me through a project at five to 60, that kind of exemplifies your approach to media production. I mean, I know that you have, you know, folks in Brooklyn, LA, New Orleans, Colombia, like walk us through kind of what makes your guys's approach to this, both with the management of the director, talent, the agencies like, and the kind of the production of your projects, particularly to your approach,

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16:24  

I was actually in talking about one job that we did, which was Starbucks, which ended up being a challenge for us, because we it was also another real person kind of thing where we, it was a different approach to how we traditionally do commercials in the sense that we had to find the people that were going to nominate people that were going to be surprised. And it basically the whole idea is that Starbucks gives you a break, because people get so busy in their lives. And they nominated people that usually put other people before themselves, they don't have a lot of time for themselves. So we got required a lot of casting, it took like three to four weeks just to cast that, just making sure we really found the right people that were deserving of it. And then you know, approaching it, and there was a lot of prep in this job rather than normal, because we were surprising people. We were we shot this up the American History Museum in New York. And we are in that big whale room. And that room is massive. And so we had to really rehearse like the logistics of, of how we were going to bring them in and what did we what we will be telling them to bring to have them come, we made like a video beforehand that was playing on the screen as they came in. So we had to like, get so it's just a lot of prep on that one. And then part of it too, which was actually cool was that we had a bunch of backgrounds that the whole idea was that these backgrounds were going to be normal people at the museum. And then once the people that were going to be surprised came in, they dispersed and disappeared. So it was like a bunch of people and then just nothing. And so we had to just really, you know, collaborate with that we had to have enough cameras, it was almost treated like a live event. And we were like watching it on the fly. So that was really cool project that we had to kind of figure out like, how did you because it was kind of almost like a live event, how we treated it. I also wanted to talk to us, I think we could talk about i-fit, because that's actually a really good example, I think of how we this was before I was at the company, but but CBS was heavily involved in that. And he could talk a bit about how, you know, we really worked on that to, to make it you know, dynamic for the client.

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18:50  

Yeah, I think you know, what's unique about our company is that from the beginning, the philosophy has always been to be very flexible, to be very open minded, and to try to operate outside of the model that a lot of production companies were using. So this is very early on. When it was expected for a production company to have a roster to help directors, the idea was like, we're gonna go out and find the best people, we're going to really build the skill set and putting projects together by really, rather than trying to kind of fit a square peg into a round hole, like we want to find that round piece. It's going to be perfect for it. So I think in that example that TJ brought up, it was finding a director who was really able to understand this complex, rather than saying like, well, we have the director here that could work. It was like who's really good at this and how can we build a team around them and he has the flexibility of being a team that has you know, an international presence across the country being able to be tapped into a lot of networks. A CJ mentioned that I could project we worked for. i-fit they're just a fitness technology company really On during the pandemic, they just needed to produce a lot of content, a lot of really unique content where they were going out all over the world and doing these guided fitness experiences. Very unique challenge. I mean, we shot in like 30 countries, like had teams going multiple teams gone at any given time, you know, these, you had to go out there and run with these running coaches or bike people or, you know, whatever, it was just this very extreme production experience. And something that I think if you approach like, more traditional production company, like they just are not set up or able to handle something as unique as that. And for us, it was just an extension of what we had gotten really good at, which is, find the right people, give them empower them. And, you know, deliver that, I think is EPs, something that's important to us that we're the representatives, also the production company. So we're the ones that are really there for all the touch points with our partners, they're talking to us, they're getting to trust us, we're building that relationship. And, and that's something that I think that we, we do really well on that. I think it's such an important part of the process is to when somebody's like, Hey, we've got a project, let's go to 5 to 60 for it, like, they know what they're gonna get, you know, a lot of everybody is hiring freelancers, and going out and making things. But I think as an EP like that continuity, and that production company presence is so important. So I'd say that's something that's a huge priority for us. We do our own bids, were with the projects the entire time, when problems come up, we're stepping in, we're having those conversations. And, yeah, ultimately, I think that's one of the things that makes us really special. I'd

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22:00  

really like to drill into this. So I'd love to know what your approach to collaboration on that looks like. How do you balance the creative visions with practical production needs? What are the actual processes or workflows that you have in place that allows you to do this kind of in a productive way, especially in an example of filming across 30 countries? That's incredible. That's

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22:26  

a lot of trust, honestly, like it's building these relationships and understanding what is appropriate to ask for what's too much, we really are only as good as the people that are, you know, coming in and helping us on our projects. And I think that, for us, our collaborative process, I think, really revolves around creating that environment where people trust us where people understand that they can tell us when they can't do something when they can do something, understanding the limitations. And same with our agency and Brand Partners is also trying to understand their needs, and what we know, being very clear and communicating. It's, yeah, I don't think that there's, you know, we don't necessarily have like specific protocols for how we handle things. But I think we do have a culture of letting listening and really creating an environment where people are going to speak up and where people are really going to tell us like, we can do this, we can't do this. And it's so important, because I think, ultimately, we're only going to be able to do things to the abilities of everybody that we have working with us. Yeah,

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23:46  

and then just add to that, just I do think it does just come with time and experience and understanding, like, when it's right to push back and when it's when you are okay to just be like, Okay, let's really figure this out, you know, knowing when that director's vision is something kind of worth fighting for when they're being, you know, a little too much. So we just finding that balance, I think is probably the biggest challenge. But you know, with time just kind of you just kind of learn that. And yeah, it's really been helpful to go through all the projects and really understand like, have a good understanding of, of what you know, is your ball and within the budget and the parameters that they give you.

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24:36  

Looking ahead. What trends or changes do you both for see in film and commercial production?

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24:45  

You know, it's been an interesting time since I think both of us have come into this world year. I think, broadly, you'll hear a lot of people talking about, you know, shrinking budgets and rising expectations, it feels like more and more. We are looking at projects that have so many deliverables, so many different pieces. You know, TJ and I have both done shoots where we were doing, you know, the main broadcast spots, all the socials, squares, rectangles, triangles, like, whenever you have all of these different UGC, there's that all the post that goes into it. And, yeah, it's more than ever, I think we're getting into this place of really needing to come up with solutions and have a lot more hands on involvement. I think from EPs, you that’'s given us an edge recently is that we have such strong production background, we have a strong technical background, we know how to do this. And there was a time when I think EPs had a lot more flexibility early on in the process of being able to bid a little bit looser and, and kind of be like, Yeah, I think we can do it this way. But we'll figure it out later. I think we don't have that luxury anymore. Like we need to be making decisions very early in the bidding process, figuring out schedules, figuring out solutions. So I would say that, yeah, my feeling is that the industry is getting more challenging, it's getting more difficult. It's requiring people that have broader skill sets, more experience, more understanding of technical things that I think we're not necessarily in the past and, and really that sort of problem solving at every stage of a figuring out how to deliver. Because, yeah, I don't really see a world where we're gonna go back, if anything, I think this is the new normal of, you know, making things at a very fast pace with a lot of moving pieces. And with just a really strong need for that sort of specificity to where you need the right storytellers, where this project has to have, like a very specific voice, and I think be era of directors who can do everything is passing, like, you know, our, our agency, producer partners, they'll tell us, we're seeing 100 150 directors for this project. And they're just looking for the director. That's perfect. And so, yeah, I think we're getting into this world of like specialization. And it's really interesting. I mean, it's really fun. It's, we, we all get a different challenge generationally. And I think right now, it's a really fun time to be in it. But it's also a very challenging time

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27:49  

as well. Also, AI is something that, you know, we, I think everyone is talking about, and it was a big topic at AICP last year. So it's definitely something you know, we're just keeping, you know, our tabs on just looking for directors to who has to understand the AI space, and, you know, that kind of stuff. So we're just kind of looking ahead, head to that, and technology, and how that just keeping on top or are these new evolutions, how things are getting done.

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28:23  

So a lot of adaptability. And it's actually caused us to constantly be reassessing our business model as well. You know, we've realized that we've built a lot of really amazing relationships with directors, and that's a new process was a new adaptation and evolution is that we are now starting to develop a roster company, to work with the directors that have developed that trust with us and be able to bring them out and develop projects with them as well, you know, that

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28:54  

aligns with what I was going to ask, which was, you know, TJ, you mentioned AI, you know, complex deliverables, a world changing at a rapid pace across all industries, not just in commercial production. You know, I was curious, like, how does five to 60 plan to evolve with these trends? And what future projects are you both excited about? I mean, you know, Sebastian, you're you describe, you know, some of the things you're doing, about, you know, really working with your agency partners and with directors to kind of think through the implications of the landscape is changing. But yeah, I'm really curious if there are any projects you can kind of describe, maybe not the clients, but the craft behind the projects that have you both excited about the future.

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29:41  

Yeah, it's, as TJ mentioned, ai ai i think is amazing. And every day we're finding talent that's really at the cutting edge of it. And we're being asked all the time for, you know, to develop those relationships and to sort of figure out like, okay, when these needs come up, who are the right people to bring on board? Yeah, for us, it's an interesting process, because we're just constantly thinking about like, well, what if we did this? What if we do that? And it's sort of constantly testing and trying out ideas and figuring things out? I mean, right now, yeah, this early in the year, it's amazing. It's like every year for us, it's just a mystery. It's just we just dive in, right, we have no idea what's going to happen this year. And it's going to be a roller coaster ride. And I think we're in the very early stages of of it going on, we were very enthusiastic about, we're going to see a big turnaround and in the market, and we're already you know, we've got a project that's currently in pre production and moving into doing more, more and more shoots. But what's also fun for us, as always, is finding solutions to our partner's needs. And we're also seeing tighter budgets that don't necessarily make sense in our current model of production. And so we're also trying to figure out, like, how do we solve that, how do we start thinking outside of the box and just deliver the, you know, the quality that we're known for, but you know, at a different economic scale, et cetera. And

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31:17  

then one other thing that we are also doing is that, you know, we started doing something called, like, Frogtown production as well, with our current model, we're adding that on, because we noticed that more and more brands are kind of starting their own, sort of in house, like agency and in house, you know, they're trying to have like a full 360 kind of thing within their own company. But sometimes they still need guidance, because a lot of them don't so have experience in production, or how to bid or how to deal with contracts and talent, and casting things like that. So, you know, we're also finding a way to support clients on, you know, more macro levels as well, rather, and in addition to like, a full experience a full production as well. So, you know, we're kind of really, we, we talk actually often about ways that we can continue to, you know, grow and evolve and, like meet the needs of what our, our clients want. And, and we, you know, I think have a lot of really exciting things that five to 60 is working towards.

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32:27  

Yeah, I will say that, as far as what I'm excited about is I think the the intersect between entertainment and advertising is something that, you know, has been talked about for a long time. But I do think, with a lot of the streaming platforms needing revenue and wanting to explore having ads there, like I do really see the possibility that we're entering into an era where we can start to have more branded entertainment more, you know, commercials that are going to live alongside like, really premium content. It's been tough, I think we've been going through an era where a lot of advertising is living on these, like user generated platforms that, you know, I think are fun. I think it's innovative, I think you have to come up with like a different sort of storytelling standpoint. But a lot of our directors us like we love movies we love like premium kind of entertainment and premium content. And I think the possibility that we could be looking at a world where now we're making ads that are going to go alongside, you know, your favorite shows on on Max or on other platforms. And so they're going to require, you know, a lot more production, they're going to require higher level sort of storytelling, skill sets, like, that's kind of like a silver lining to everything that's happening right now, where I think we get to go back to some of the things that we really enjoyed doing.

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33:52  

That's awesome. For both of you. How do you see the role of executive producers evolving in the next few years in the industry?

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33:59  

Yeah, as I as I mentioned, I think our skill sets need to be like, broader, more deeper, broader, more connected more in touch, like we have to just stay on top of things so much, not only technology, but also people like there's so much talent coming up every day. Instagram, Tik Tok, you just have so many incredible people that are making stuff. And I think there was once a time I remember there was a friend of mine who told me it was like, the whole industry fits in a football stadium. Like it's in a basketball arena. Like there was a time where you just called people, the directors. There weren't that many directors out there because the bar the barrier to entry was so high. But today it's global. It's just every day there's new people, amazing talents. We just have to stay on top of a lot. We have to constantly educate ourselves on all of this technology and all these tools, but the fundamentals have always stayed the same. It's still our job to shepherd these projects through to make sure that we deliver, that everyone's experience and expectations are, are met. And yeah, it's good always just continue to be a really fun problem solving challenge.

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35:23  

And I think EPs always have to be flexible, you know, in terms of the evolution of the industry, you know, the way of the old is really changed. And, you know, these bigger budgets with roster companies that used to have a company that were their roster didn't have any roster before was kind of unheard of back then. And then now it's very common. And, you know, they really have got, like, so much social media, these platforms, all these streaming platforms, I mean, there were so there's so much content out there, that, you know, we just have to kind of know, where the keep our focus, and just kind of like, make sure we're constantly abreast and, you know, we're only two people at this stage, but like, the more people that you get to help you with, you know, focusing on, on on all these different trends, and just kind of having a really big collaborative team, I think, is kind of where we have to go, just gotta keep, you know, following the trends and just evolving as as we see fit. That's

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36:33  

awesome. TJ Sebastian, thank you so much for sharing your story and walking me through a bit of your process and how you make these really amazing projects come to life. Thanks for being on On Production with me really appreciate it.

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36:47  

We're big fans of the of the tools like Wrapbook, we have to say it but like we love Wrapbook. Like, we use it all the time it's made. I mean, we both come from production, as like coordinators, etc. Like shelling out paper time cards and like it is. Yeah, it's been I love the technology. I love the tools. Like, you know, I did feel like for a time when I was working as a coordinator. I was like, man, we are shooting on the like, the greatest digital cameras engineered by Germans incredible technology. You know, the camera team has all these cool toys and like you're in production, we've got like pencil and paper and like some Excel plugin that someone made 20 years ago.

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37:36  

Yeah, totally agree you. And, you know, I always said this, because there were a lot of other companies that were trying to do a digital version. But you guys made a really user friendly and that that helped a lot. Like, I think that is the biggest key because that was the biggest challenge with crew members, especially the older crew members. It's like trying to get them to fill a timecard through a computer where it's like, pulling your hair out. But now you know, it's like very like, what's your name? What's you know, you guys made it like really user friendly. So I think you guys, you know, thank you for bringing us into the digital world. Really?

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38:16  

Absolutely. It's awesome to have you all as customers and to be your partner in kind of making stories and sharing stories with the world. It's awesome.

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38:25  

Yeah, thank you so much.

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38:27  

Thank you, Cameron